The following is the full transcript of an interview with Sen. Mark Kelly, Democrat of Arizona, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Jan. 12, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Arizona Democratic senator Mark Kelly, who joins us from Tucson, Arizona. Good morning to you, Senator.
SEN. MARK KELLY: Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It- it’s going to be a very busy week in the Senate. Before I get to those confirmation hearings, I want to follow up on what the FBI director told our Scott Pelley there in describing some of the Chinese hacking and what incoming National Security Advisor Mike Waltz called “cyber time bombs” throughout U.S. infrastructure. What needs to happen? What do the consequences need to be for China, having done this and remaining in our infrastructure?
SEN. KELLY: Well, we’ve got to be strong in standing up to them and- and ex- explaining to them, and in some cases, I think consequences need to be serious. There are things that we can do, we have the tools. But I would say, even beyond that, we’ve got to figure out a way to get them off of the infrastructure. With regards to the telecom system, multiple companies, you know, Chinese cyber software are currently on those systems, and we’re working to try to fix this. Some of this is going to require that the- the telecom companies upgrade their infrastructure. That could be costly. We’re currently working with them to do that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s pretty incredible that this espionage happened in the first place, and expelling them is so hard to do. I want to also ask you about another Chinese question, and that has to do with Tiktok, because the attorney for the company said they will go dark next Sunday, unless the Supreme Court intervenes and stops this national security law from taking effect, or delays it, as Mr. Trump has asked the court to do. What do you think is going to happen here?
SEN. KELLY: Well, based on the oral argument in the case two days ago, it looks like the Supreme Court- I mean, I don’t really want to speculate, but it- it does look like they’re going to uphold the law that we passed. So- I think on the 19th, so one day before- before the inauguration, you know, Tiktok on our systems, on our servers, becomes something that’s now been banned by Congress. So I imagine there’s going to be a disruption in the service here, you know, starting on the 19th. I know this is controversial. I know there are folks out there that earn a living, you know, on Tiktok, but it has a national security risk to it. You know, one is the data, one of the risks. The thing that I’m more concerned about is their ability to manipulate the- the population of the United States, especially in time of a conflict. So it was the right decision. I voted for it. And it looks like the Supreme Court is going to uphold the legislation that we passed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll track that story. I want to follow up on something Senator Barrasso brought up, which was the Laken Riley Act. You say you support this. It’s a bill that would require federal authorities to detain undocumented immigrants charged with theft related crimes, rather than releasing them on parole. This bill was introduced last congress, didn’t go anywhere. Was it wrong for Democrats not to take it up? Was it election year politics that made Democrats concerned about bringing it forward?
SEN. KELLY: Well, in the last year, we’ve been working with Republicans on bipartisan border security legislation with the hope of getting that passed and then moving on to comprehensive immigration reform. I think we could do that. I think there’s a lot of, you know, there’s- you know, there’s an effort, I think, that’s going to continue. You know, right now, this is certainly bipartisan. I voted for cloture on the, you know, motion to start talking about it. And ultimately I’ll vote—
(BEGIN CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN
But do you regret not doing that, taking that position earlier?
SEN. KELLY: —to- to pass it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: If Democrats were more muscular on this issue—
SEN: KELLY: Well—
MARGARET BRENNAN: —which was such a live issue during the campaign?
(END CROSSTALK)
SEN. KELLY: Well, I mean, the Laken Riley Act is very specific. I mean, it does one specific thing. We were working on something that was much more comprehensive, money for Border Patrol agents, and hiring, and infrastructure, policy changes. And policy changes, you know, you really have to do in a bipartisan way. We can’t do that through the reconciliation process you were talking about. So there is- you know, I think there’s- there’s going to be an effort ongoing. This is bipartisan. You’re right, we didn’t do this a year ago, you know, maybe we should have. But we were working on bipartisan border security legislation. We weren’t able to get that across the finish line. I hope we can do that in this Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to get to two of the- two of the picks here. You sit on the Armed Services Committee. Typically, only the ranking and chairs of the committees get to see the FBI background check on a nominee. But as you know, many senators are asking for more information on Pete Hegseth, here. Do you have any information from the ranking member of the committee, from Senator Reed, that you will get access or get any information from that FBI background check?
SEN. KELLY: Margaret, let me just start by saying, there is not a job that’s more serious and more critical to our national security than Secretary of Defense, and we need a qualified individual in that job, and he just does not seem to have the qualifications. And then on top of that, you look at his personal conduct, especially when he was managing Veterans for Freedom and Concerned Veterans of America. You know, these two organizations were financially- financially mismanaged. There was reports of being into- intoxicated on the job, and creating an environment, you know, where there was, you know, some issues with, you know, sexual harassment. So I think it’s in the nominee, Mr. Hegseth’s, best interest if he wants to be confirmed for this job, for us to have all the information. You know, the information from these organizations, but also the FBI background check. Right now, as you say, the chairman and the ranking member are going to get it. That’s an agreement with the White House, but there has been exceptions made in the past for certain nominees. This, clearly, because it is bipartisan, like a bi- you know, across the aisle, folks want to see the FBI background check. I think we should get an opportunity to take a look at it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, the New York Times is reporting that your- that the ranking member had been briefed as of Friday. Are- you’re saying no information has been shared?
SEN. KELLY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, do you think it will be before Tuesday—
SEN. KELLY: Not yet.
MARGARET BRENNAN: —when the hearing—
SEN. KELLY: I don’t know. I think—
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
SEN. KELLY: —you know, we will have an opportunity, you know- I’ll talk to the ranking member, and I also talked to the chairman about this, about his nomination in general. Moreso, the discussion I had with Roger Wicker was about just meeting with Mr. Hegseth. We’ve reached out to him multiple times. Have not been able to schedule a meeting in my office. And he’s not meeting with any other Democrats on the committee other than the ranking member. More information is better. If- if he wants to be confirmed to this job, I think it’s in our best interest to have everything put out on the table.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re on the Intelligence Committee. Former Democrat Tulsi Gabbard, she is controversial as well. Republican Senator Capito was on FOX today and said when she privately met with Tulsi Gabbard, she pressed her on that 2017 trip to Syria that came in the wake of a chemical weapons attack carried out by dictator Bashar Al-Assad against civilians. Gabbard told her, she said, that she didn’t even know she was going to Syria, that she intended to go to Lebanon on the scheduled visit and ended up in Syria. Is that a credible answer?
SEN. KELLY: I talked to Congresswoman Gabbard this week, met with her in my office. We talked about the trip to Syria. She didn’t tell me that part. I mean, I think it’s kind of unusual that you wind up in one place, it wasn’t part of the plan. But what concerns me more, especially about that trip, is, it was common knowledge that Assad was gassing the civilian population, using chemical weapons against the population, multiple times. And she didn’t argue about those, but she took the time and the effort to make a case that there were two cases, and she used, you know, experts that were not critical- credible to try to- try to prove that he was not using chemical weapons in those two instances. And I have a hard time understanding why you would want to do that, to use your political capital to try to prove something when there are multiple cases. And you know, on top of that, when you look at- you know, what’s- what- in- in Russia with misinformation, she does seem to have a predilection for- for misinformation—.
(BEGIN CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll—
SEN. KELLY: —and for not having—
MARGARET BRENNAN: —we’ll see—
SEN. KELLY: —presenting a case that isn’t strong, and not listening to the intelligence community.
MARGARET BRENNAN: My producer’s yelling in my ear, I gotta go, Senator, I’m so sorry to cut you off—
SEN. KELLY: Okay.
MARGARET BRENNAN: —but we will see when the hearing gets scheduled.
SEN. KELLY: Bye.
(END CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be back in a moment.
